GuitarLord · @TehGuitarLord
25th Nov 2018 from TwitLonger
Ultimate Demo Impressions
Today was a fun Saturday. I'm glad I decided to go to the Queens Center to take advantage of the one opportunity I could get to play the demo. In the beginning, I ended up playing 3 games in the same hour and 15 min. We then took a food break and then played another 3 games within the next 2 hours or so. The group was me, SaucySus69, Mona, and Mona's friend, and we pretty much all played roughly 6 games altogether. I will highlight who I picked in each game and anything that I could extrapolate from playing each game.
1. Simon Belmont - This was the moment I had been waiting for since the middle of the Summer, I was finally about to play this character. Unfortunately we were sent to Wrecking Crew, so I was limited in movement with what I could do. That and adjusting to the new engine and controls was a little nutty at first.
Neutral B - A lot of startup and a lot of cool down. The arc is large, couldn't tell if I could control it or not. Definitely horrible in neutral, might have niche use for edge guarding deep.
Side B - Excellent move. Projectile with high priority, massive, and acts like Tinks rang, which is great for combos.
Up B - Atrocious. Idk if it's good for combos, might be okay for escaping random moves and retreating to platforms (needs more testing). You cannot rely on this move for recovery. Definitely recovered by tethering with fair and bair way more.
Down B - As of this current game I had no opinion of it, but I will cover it when I talk about Richter in game 5.
Tilts - Forgot to try any of them this game lmao
Jab - Amazing jab. A lot of range, low cool down, rapid jabs suck people in and last a while/do a lot.
Dash attack - Sets up for an aerial. Quick. Don't know if you can cross up shields safely with it or not.
Fsmash - This is one of the most broken moves I've ever used in all of Smash. Extremely spammable, covers half the stage in length, can be angled, breaks shields after 2-3, kills.
Dsmash - No opinion.
Up smash - I got it once or twice. Strong poking move, kills later than I would like it to, but it's balanced for that reason.
Fair - Probably my favorite move in all of Smash. Amazing for spacing, combos, kills, this move does everything you would ever want it to do.
Nair - Nobody really talks about this move when they bring up the Belmonts, and it's a shame because this move is incredible. Essentially handles nearly all up close situations, and you can combo a fair or bair off it depending on which way it sends the opponent. Didn't think to try drag down nair -> grab, but I can see it being a thing too.
Bair - Like fair, but the range felt larger? Just as quick and spammable as fair too.
Up air - Due to the ladders and jank of Wrecking Crew, I was unable to do what I wanted with this move. Real shame.
Down air - This was a really weird move to get used to at first, but I think with mastery of the character this is gonna be kind of insane. Great for escaping, pressure, edge guarding, and starts combos. I managed to do dair -> fair -> fair -> maintain advantage state (which essentially got me another nair -> fair after reading an air dodge). This is only the basic bnb of the character, which is why this move excites me so much.
2. Young Link - This was another moment I had been waiting for. Is this character the top tier threat that all of the pros think he is, or is he overhyped? I can safely say that this is the fastest version of Link that has ever existed. The best? I'll talk about that at the end of the doc when I give my final impressions. This game was played on the Spirit Train stage, which is still jank but I could finally move at least.
Neutral B - Yeah his arrows are as wild as you think they are. That being said, they're not quite Falco lasers in Melee/Brawl. They're really good at a distance and a midrange, but up close characters can definitely duck under them. Can be used to approach, camp, start combos, etc.
Side B - Boomerang functions as you would expect. Slightly larger than Tinks, but essentially functions the same way. Can still do confirms off it. Still solid.
Up B - This has so much horizontal momentum. Even if the vertical length is nothing special, the aerial momentum he has will make up for it. Thank goodness he has normal bombs too, because he's about to recover from really far distances if he works with them.
Down B - Bombs are what you would expect to. Couldn't get a feel for how long bombs last, was mostly focusing on trying to get bomb confirms. I was able to do a couple, but didn't get a bomb kill confirm with him.
Up tilt - Essentially Smash 4 Link's but smaller and faster
Down tilt - forgot to try
Ftilt - Nothing special
Jabs - A nice 1-2-3 that does pretty much as expected
Dash Attack - Not as remarkable as everyone seems to make it out to be. Just kinda does what's expected.
Fsmash - Underwhelming. I did it to Yoshi at 110 kinda near the blast zone and he didn't die. Might be good for a quick punish (if you connect it), but don't rely on it for killing. Connected better than Link's fsmash or Tink's fsmash, so that quick punish might be more viable than it is in any other game.
Down Smash - This is the horizontal killing move you will want to use. This does kill at 110 near the ledge and sends at a more obnoxious angle. Hard to see how obnoxious it was on Spirit Train, but it seems pretty good.
Up Smash - Pretty much a faster but shorter and less powerful version of Smash 4 Link's up smash. Good for punishing out of shield, but don't rely on killing with it unless you're on a platform.
Fair - Again, a faster but weaker version of Link's fair from Smash 4. This didn't even kill at 90 near the blast zone.
Nair - This is Young Link's best move. Literally does everything, probably a top 10 nair in the game. I wouldn't be surprised if I saw Young Link players that didn't use projectiles and pretty much played their whole game around this move.
Bair - Similar to nair, except it's 2 hits like Link's in Smash 4. A little smaller, but kinda does the same thing. Sends at an angle similar to Melee YL's bair, so you can't really do double bair combos into up b like Link in Smash 4, but you can do bair -> rang or bair -> nair or something like that.
Up air - Great for poking and catching landings. Probably has a lot of combo potential, but it was hard to do on Spirit Train. Also had a hard time killing, didn't kill at 130 which is concerning.
Down air - This is the most beautiful down air out of any Link in any smash game, and it's another move that completely makes the character. The amount of horizontal drift you have with this move is unparalleled and one who can use this move correctly will be really annoying to deal with. Also autocancels and kills at like 90.
3. Toon Link. This game was played on Kongo Jungle from Melee. Stage is actually mad fun in this game, which is great because it used to be frustrating for me to play on back in the day. Half the time I was struggling to do what I wanted because I'm so used to playing with him using tilt stick, so it was extremely difficult for me to test any of the lovely up tilt combos. I was able to form strong opinions on a couple key moves, so I'll just state those.
Up air - Still lingers forever, but slightly worse and might kill a little bit later.
Fair - I'm so happy this move is still bullshit. Actually still unga bunga kills at 85 with no rage not even near the blast zone.
Up Smash - Range increased, but slightly slower. I don't think it's a buff or nerf, just a tweak.
Fsmash - This is it, the big move that everyone seems to think is the big nerf to Toon Link. And honestly, I don't know what people are smoking when they say this move is a nerf. I managed to kill some dude across the stage at 110 with this move, which although is nothing special is still solid. It's super safe on the ground. Because it's so quick, it might require a parry or range for it to be punishable on shield. Spammable just like Simon's fsmash. People are sleeping on the potential this move has.
Up B (grounded) - I did this by accident and was kinda surprised to notice that it got a range buff. We take those.
4. I talked to the Young Link discord to see if they wanted me to test anything in particular, and the main mod and labber of Young Link in Ultimate wanted me to try to see if YL still had a fiery meteor that was very frame-tight and specific in terms of hitbox that existed Melee. The whole game I actually straight up spammed dair. We were on Gamer so it was hard to fish for this with a middle platform that could be teched off of. The closest I got to landing it was vs the Nintendo rep who was playing Chrom. The moment I went for it, he countered my dair... At the end of the game he was like "Yo I saw you were tryna spike me, I see u I see u." I explained to him after that it's currently unknown if that move spikes and that I was trying to go for it. Even if it seems like I wasted this game, a solid Link player from Iowa named Sandbag actually got his hands on the demo at the same time as me, and we both finished our games at the same time thinking that the fiery dair meteor either no longer exists, or that it is the most specific shit in the world. Perhaps this wasn't a complete waste, and maybe if I did get it then that would've been my biggest contribution I could've given towards that community.
5. Richter Belmont - Deotay in the RIT Discord asked me to test something with the Belmonts, so I figured I'd try the other Belmont for this. The main objective was to test if a perfectly spaced Fsmash could have real pressure on shield. Mona thankfully helped me test this, and the other 2 playing with us just avoided us. The stage we were on this game was Prism Tower, so we had plenty of space and no hazards to test this, which was great. He played as Yoshi the whole time pretty much. First I fsmashed his shield and he tried to dash attack. My jabs came out just before his dash attack hit me and beat his dash attack. Next I fsmashed his shield and he tried to do something aerial. I hit him with fair. What this confirms to me is that Fsmash pressure (if perfectly spaced) is safe on shield and can only be respected for the most part, which is actually kind of ridiculous considering how it's already a spammable move. In the middle of testing this, I managed to break his shield twice with 2 fsmashes. Granted, he was holding shield a bit longer because of testing, but for the range that move has it's a little too strong. Because of the space I had, I was able to test some of the other moves that I couldn't form strong opinions of earlier.
Down Tilt - I see the utility of it, but I was unable to do what I wanted to successfully with that move. Will take some time to lab out.
Up tilt - It's okay? Nothing special, you're better off using nair if they're right above you.
Up air - Felt good to spam this move with the space I had. You're really gonna have to get used to the fact that it only covers straight above you, because it was hard to hit people with. Though it could be really good for threatening an air dodge because of how quick it is.
Down Smash - This move was pretty whatever to me.
Down B - This move is wild. Imagine arcfire that doesn't run out and can be used for larger combos afterwards.
Down Air - The combos I was able to do with Simon carried over. This move is pretty good for edge guarding, as you can't really kill yourself with it unless you mess up. Have to test priority vs other up bs tho, as it lost to Ridley's up b.
Random cool combo: RAR nair -> bair was a combo I had in my brain since their reveal trailer, and when I got it I lost my shit. This can be a legit kill setup at like 90 near the ledge.
Differences Between Richter and Simon: TBH, I couldn't really tell too much. Richter might be slightly faster or better than Simon, but don't take that opinion as gospel quite yet.
6. Bayonetta - Although we had a lot of space to play with the Pirate Ship stage, the Nintendo rep who played with us was a tryhard Ganon who used final smashes and items and was good with them. This meant that whenever I tried to do a Bayo combo, he would always catch my landing and prevented me from doing my follow up. That being said, here are some noticeable changes that I found.
Up b - Less range and priority out of shield. Still amazing at doing all of the other bs it does.
ABK - Even if there's more endlag, it still allowed me to do what I wanted.
Nair - The endlag for holding bullets is exaggerated in terms of how people think that it will ruin campy Bayo. While there is endlag to it, it's not enough to completely invalidate that strategy.
Fair 1 - I didn't test this on the ground or shield, but I heard overall this move was neutered. In the air, fair 1 combos still exist and they are as broken as they have ever been. Anyone who tells you this move is nerfed either meant that it was nerfed on the ground and on shield. If they meant that aerial combos starting with fair 1 are neutered, then that person needs glasses or new hands.
Overall impressions for each character after some reflection:
Simon/Richter Belmont - Not as broken as I thought they'd be, but they're still really strong. High tier at worse, still open to them being top tier depending on how hard they outclass people with their range and how their punish game develops (both for combos and kills). They were the most fun I've had playing Smash in so long, still plan on using them and labbing the shit out of them.
Young Link - Extremely fun. The fastest Link and arguably best projectiles too. Unfortunately, I think the fact that he struggles really hard to kill will hurt him in the long run. Granted, Sheik struggles to kill and she's still top 5 in Smash 4, so Young Link still could be top tier. I'm still skeptical, and we'll have to see how his struggle to kill will affect him in the meta.
Toon Link - Happy to see that this character is relatively unchanged. His fair killing early and his fsmash giving him more grounded tools in the neutral actually lead me to believe that Toon Link could be the best Link. Regardless, both Young Link and Toon Link are strong, but I was more impressed with Toon Link. That does not mean that I think Toon Link is top tier, as I don't know if either Toon Link or Young Link are top tier material.
Bayonetta - Although she might not be the best character in the game, this character is much better than people are making her out to be. She's easily gonna be top 10 and a top tier, even if she did get some nerfs. Also still mad fun.