Troxism · @Troxism
1st Jan 2017 from TwitLonger
Why the AP grinding debate isn't actually a real debate
So the whole issue of spamming mythic+ to grind AP to improve raid performance has been slowly coming to a head. People have complained about it in various places, and yesterday was one of the few times anyone from Blizzard has said anything about the topic. This obviously spawned a flurry of responses and basically things ended 'badly TM' as nothing really got accomplished in terms of moving the conversation forward.
But why do I say that nothing got accomplished? Well basically because this whole 'debate' isn't a real debate. The most common counter argument used against AP grinding feeling terrible is that 'well then just don't do it then', or some variation thereof. Why is this not a real argument? Because it doesn't address ANY of the points the other side brings up. It is almost the same thing as just saying 'well there is no problem at all'. As a simple example (I don't really want to get into the whole debate here), people say they feel like they 'have to' grind AP due to social pressures, or boss tuning. Saying 'well just don't do it' sounds silly in that context (it isn't counter arguing ANY of those points, it is just dismissing them as if they don't exist), and it's why the people complaining about AP get understandably upset when this is the response they get; it's clear to them (maybe not consciously but at least sub-consciously) that the other person doesn't actually care to listen to their point of view or put themselves in their shoes at all; ie is not practising any form of empathy.
And empathy is a big point here. A real debate requires you to be able to understand the other side, because you have to be able to understand their points in order to refute them. Understanding is not the same thing as agreeing obviously but the dialogue about AP grinding clearly shows there is almost no understanding being attempted by the majority of people engaging in it.
Even worse is when people engage in the practice of making the debate into a false dichotomy. As an example: 'We can't put a weekly AP cap because then if you missed the cap one week you would be behind forever!'. Except Conquest points used to work in a way where if you didn't cap one week, the cap next week was raised. Now obviously there are other points to be made about that solution, but you get the idea; the problem is people aren't SERIOUSLY considering possible solutions. Creating a false dichotomy like this is actually just an extension of 'dismiss the other side completely' as I describe above; it's just saying 'well there is no solution because I can't think of one in 5 minutes, so just deal with it!'
Now again there are other examples of this, and I won't bring more up (because this text isn't about the actual debate itself but how it's being carried out).
It is interesting to note that pattern of 'non debate' about the AP issue parallels other 'hot button topics' such as politics or religion. I am sure everyone has seen the usual left vs right wing 'debates' where people just hurl either straight up insults at the other side, or make ridiculous strawman statements about what the other side believes/wants, or other such examples. I would list some examples but I am legitimately worried about sparking some kind of political 'debate' (like I said above, these 'debates; aren't real debates as neither side actually seeks to understand the other at all).
Another thing to note is that in some cases, SOME (not all) of the people frustrated about how the 'AP problem' is being dismissed have done the same on other issues in the past (for example flying in WoD, but that isn't the only one). While I'm not saying this to argue that this makes their point invalid (it doesn't, and if I was doing that, it would be a great example of attacking the person rather then their point, ie also not debating), but I am just pointing out that it should be cause for a little self reflection in some cases. In fact I would argue EVERYONE has done this at some point in their lives (dismiss the other point of view completely). If you have ever been the person being dismissed, it can feel really terrible (and this is why most 'debates' turn into shouting matches), and while I certainly don't think me saying it is really going to solve this global problem, my point is, as hard as it can sometimes be, legitimately seeing the other side is really the only way to have a productive discussion on ANY topic, regardless of it's importance.
TLDR: If you really actually want to debate the 'AP grind' topic, please be able to see the other side, because guess what, there is one. If you think the other side doesn't have ANY point (even if you disagree with it), well you are part of the problem and the reason why the discourse on this topic often feels like two brick walls talking past each other.