Nick Sutton · @suttonnick
1st Aug 2013 from TwitLonger
Here's the full transcript of @beckmilligan's interview with George Mudie from #wato. You can listen to the intv here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01dkq6q
PLEASE CREDIT THE WORLD AT ONE, BBC RADIO 4
GEORGE MUDIE:
It’s a dreadful place.
BECKY MILLIGAN:
It’s a dreadful place?
GEORGE MUDIE:
It’s a dreadful place if you come here with idealism and you, and also if you come here from a constituency where you see what’s happening to ordinary people and down here we go through this farce. The Government want the legislation through, the Opposition want to have a good fight at being seen to be against it, and so that’s the part you play.
BECKY MILLIGAN:
I mean are they in touch with you much? The leadership, the people around the Leader?
GEORGE MUDIE:
The Leader is always cocooned by people round him and the basis they’re around him is he trusts them and they’re discreet, etc. etc.
BECKY MILLIGAN:
Do they tell him the truth?
GEORGE MUDIE:
No, that’s, that’s the bad side. The bad side is, you know, the bunker mentality that gets round leaders, one of Ed’s problems really is that he’s young, and, of course, the way he came to power – the problem with his brother, the fact that the trade unions had a major say and I still think he’s trying to find himself. And the trouble with that is that sometimes he’s doing things that he thinks a leader should do, that he shouldn’t do. He should use his own judgment and his own belief on how he should act, etc. etc. and forget about how does a leader react.
BECKY MILLIGAN:
What sort of things are you thinking about?
GEORGE MUDIE:
Ah…
BECKY MILLIGAN:
Can you give me an example, or is it too difficult…
GEORGE MUDIE:
No, I don’t, I know certain things that have happened, that I think shouldn’t have happened, were unwise. When the big issues have come up, he’s been very sound and he should relax and just be yourself, Ed. I think one of the difficulties a Labour Party member would say to you, and I would say to you, I have difficulty knowing what we stand for now. We are 18 months away from an election thinking that we will put out a document on all these major items and the public will say, “oh great.” And I think, often, at the moment, the government are setting the agenda, making the weather and we're responding to it. Tony Blair and Gordon Brown never did that.
BECKY MILLIGAN:
Didn’t they?
GEORGE MUDIE:
No, I may have been a critic at times of, certainly Tony, and on occasions Gordon, but they made the weather, they set the agenda and they even set it in opposition. We're not setting any agenda, we're responding to the Tories.
BECKY MILLIGAN:
I mean if anyone was to say well, you know, this is just one backbencher, it’s the ‘usual suspect’, it’s Old Labour, what do we care about that, we’re in a new era now, we’re in a new era for the Labour Party, how do you respond to that?
GEORGE MUDIE:
Erm, calmly. But to get back in to government, we have got to demonstrate to people that we are relevant to their lives.
BECKY MILLIGAN:
So what do you…
GEORGE MUDIE:
Because why would you vote Labour if, if we're not offering something different, they’ll stick with what they’ve got. You know, I’m a bad tempered, cynical old individual, and er, I’m sad about that, but that’s the way it is. So you factor that in, but even a cynical old individual who’s been in politics since he was 15, and there’s a lot of them in here, should be listened to, not should be listened to, but there might be some wisdom in just lending the odd ear.
BECKY MILLIGAN:
Do many others feel the same way do you think, some of the old lags, some of the newer backbenchers?
GEORGE MUDIE:
Well, there has to be and there is some concern that the lead we have in the polls, first of all is not firm enough, big enough, but will it withstand a General Election discussion? But the real thing is, do you know, ‘cos I don’t, know our position on welfare, do you know our position on education, do you know our genuine position on how we'd run the health service? Now so if you’re not getting a clear enough message to me, and to some of my colleagues, what are you, what kind of message do you think you're putting out there. I remember before we won, ‘92, the five years to ’97, this place was bubbling, we were energetic, we were at them, we thought we had all the answers. We're not at them and we're slightly hesitant and we're slightly confused and I deeply worry about that.