Dan Abrahmsen · @danabrahmsen
25th Jan 2013 from Twitlonger
@drpetersaunders @secularbloke
Here are my responses to your "Twenty good arguments for Christianity" found here http://pjsaunders.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/twenty-good-arguments-for-christianity.html
1. Firstly, this reason assumes the very thing in question. Namely, that there was a man named Jesus in the middle east some 2000 years ago who ACTUALLY performed miracles and ACTUALLY was the son of god etc.
Secondly, it assumes that the best explanation for what eyewitnesses reported was something supernatural rather than more mundane things like illusion/delusion/dishonesty/exaggeration etc.
Lastly, as has been pointed out, several aspects of the Jesus myth are in no way unique or original
2. If by "historical records" you mean the bible and the account Josephus leaves us, the bible is the thing under dispute and Josephus wasn't writing until ~60 years after the events transpired.
In addition, not sure how a supernatural explanation can be best when there are mundane explanations available. Paraphrasing from wikipedia: (1) The body was removed by someone unconnected with Jesus (2) The body of Jesus was stolen by his disciples (3) The empty tomb was not the tomb of Jesus (4) Buried alive, Jesus later left the tomb (5) Jesus recovered from a coma. (6) The Disciples lied about seeing Jesus alive (7) The Disciples saw someone else who looked like Jesus etc. etc.
3. This is simply not true, yes there are large numbers of manuscripts but the vast majority of them date from the 10th century onwards and the oldest we have is from ~125CE (see the Rylands Library Papyrus P52 which contains a total of 14 lines from Gospel of John)
Large numbers of manuscripts does not mean the things in those manuscripts are true.
4. I would talk to a Rabbi about continuity, circulation, translation, survival, teachings and influence. As for internal consistency, this isn't saying much because it's NOT internally consistent but even if it was, what does that prove? The authors could compare notes?
In addition, are you aware there are more than 66 books and several different biblical canons? Which one was divinely inspired? Which one is correct? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon#Western_Church
5. Talk to a rabbi about why Jesus DOESN'T fulfill the messianic prophesies
6. Not overly impressed by these. One example, Tyre is currently the 4th most populated city in Lebanon and has been continuously in habited since ancient times.
7. Boils down to god exists because lots of people believe he does. Argument ad populum
8. Granting you there was a creator, not sure how you came to the conclusion this god character must be personal. My guess is that you inserted that there as a link to your christian god to avoid the problem of proving a deistic god. Also, why can't the cause be natural?
9. I'll just quote Douglas Adams to you: "Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact, it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!'"
i.e. The universe is not fine tuned for us, we are fine tuned to the universe
10. Just because some things aren't currently explained doesn't mean that they CAN'T be explained and it's no excuse for a god of the gaps argument.
I'll stop there and let you digest but I'm happy to do the rest if you wish?